PBS "Charlie Rose" Interview with Tsakhiagiin Elbegdo..,final
2015-10-14 11:13:36.570 GMT
PBS "Charlie Rose" Interview with Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj, President of Mongolia, Regarding Politics and Government
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Subject: Mongolia's Government and Politics
Participants: Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj, President of Mongolia; Charlie Rose, PBS Host
Time: 23:00:00
Date: 2015-10-13
CHARLIE ROSE, PBS HOST: Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj has been president of Mongolia since 2009. He previously served as prime minister in 1998 and again from 2004 to 2006. He is considered one of the principal architects of democracy in his country. He was one of the leaders of the 1990 revolution that ended 70 years of communist rule in Mongolia and co-drafted the country’s 1992 constitution.
This year marks the 25th anniversary of Mongolia’s transition to democracy.
And so therefore I am very pleased to have the President at this table for the first time. Welcome.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ, PRESIDENT OF MONGOLIA: Thank you very much. This is the (inaudible). When we meet in Mongolia, we give to each other. It’s a way greet. We ask how is the weather? How is your family? In Mongolia, horses are very popular. We ask how are your horses? And you smell and give me back.
CHARLIE ROSE: I smell it and give it back to you.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. That's the way to begin conversation.
CHARLIE ROSE: Very well. I’m pleased to be part of your culture and your tradition.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Great. Yes, thank you.
CHARLIE ROSE: You have come a long way to the United Nations.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: What do you hope to accomplish while here?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: You know, this year is the 70 anniversary of the U.N.
I think the 70th anniversary because of that, I think the world has the best 70 years. I concluded that because we are much healthier. There were no big wars, and people much educated, and we had a good 70 years. I hope for a good 70 years again.
CHARLIE ROSE: How’s your relationship with Russia?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Very good.
CHARLIE ROSE: And China?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Very good. We used to live next to each other for centuries. One time Mongolia was a big power. And now I think there is no disputes -- no political disputes, no border disputes, no territorial disputes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Has the transition to democracy been easy?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: No.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I think the transition to democracy was very challenging. We took very challenging way. But it's the natural way. We have to do that.
CHARLIE ROSE: You are a nomadic country?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: And what does that mean for you?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I was born and raised in a nomadic family. I was born and raised in a shepherd family. And now, my family means -- it carries the way of Mongolia we live -- our culture, our tradition, our history and also independent way of life, and we like freedom.
CHARLIE ROSE: You love freedom.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. We love freedom.
CHARLIE ROSE: But you had to be part of the overthrow of the earlier regime --
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: -- to create freedom.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. At the end of 1989, that was a very cold winter.
During that time, there was the fall of the Berlin Wall. There was the uprising in Tiananmen Square.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: But there at the center we had organized big demonstrations in Mongolia. And I was the moderator of that demonstration, first moderator.
CHARLIE ROSE: You were the moderator.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Moderator of that demonstration.
CHARLIE ROSE: How old were you?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: During that time, I was 26 years old.
CHARLIE ROSE: So you played a role in the new Mongolia?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, that's right. I was very fortunate to play that role nu and --
CHARLIE ROSE: and what do you hope for Mongolia? What is the ambition for your country?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: You know, to make every Mongolian to have their right to have their right to exercise. And I believe in our people's ability. I believe in our people's freedom. Once people have that freedom, once people have that right, I think people exercise their ingenuity. They are more creative.
When people have more freedom, they are more creative. You’re your people are more creative, your country is going to be more prosperous.
CHARLIE ROSE: I asked President Putin what he most admired about America and he said creativity and freedom.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: That's right.
CHARLIE ROSE: You would say the same thing.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, same thing. You know, some countries can offer a good wine.
CHARLIE ROSE: A good wine.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: But America can offer freedom.
CHARLIE ROSE: And a good wine.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Also good wine, yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: But the relationship with America is good as well?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. Since the inception of our democratic movement, actually America supported us, but it was our country born movement. In June 1990 we had James Baker.
CHARLIE ROSE: James Baker -- the former secretary of state.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, former secretary of state came to Mongolia and he said, "We will support you. We will support your choice for freedom, for democracy."
CHARLIE ROSE: How can they support it? What can the United States do to further your ambitions as a democracy?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I think only that’s enough support morally. The kind of cultural or value connection is very important. And once you have that freedom -- I think usually freedom, human rights is not only for the western countries. It's every man entitled to it. Every man can enjoy it, even in Mongolia.
CHARLIE ROSE: How would you define the role of the United States in your region? What do you expect from the United States?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Very important role. You know, we have two big neighbors, the Republic of China and Russia Federation. I think in the coming years the relationship between the United States of America and China or Russia is I think going to be the defining moment.
CHARLIE ROSE: The U.S. relationship between China and Russia will be defining in your region?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. That’s right.
CHARLIE ROSE: And what are your expectations? That they will somehow find common ground for the future rather than -- there certainly will be competition but you hope there will not be adversaries?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I hope they find common ground because, you know, this
70 years of the anniversary of the U.N., we had here Putin, also President Xi Jinping, and I was there in the U.N. headquarters.
CHARLIE ROSE: Pope Francis.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, Pope Francis, and I listened to their speeches and they were quite promising.
CHARLIE ROSE: Promising?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. Promising.
President Xi Jinping's speech was very substantive, very promising speech, and President Putin also gave his stand, very clear stand what he think about the world affairs.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did you send troops to Iraq?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: And what made that -- how did you come to that decision?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: You know, we were in Iraq in the 1400s and 1500s, also, 1300s. We ruled Iraq and Iran, Persia, for two centuries. Our Huns.
CHARLIE ROSE: The Mongolian empire.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: The Mongolian empire. The mighty Mongolian empire -- biggest land empire that ever existed on the earth.
CHARLIE ROSE: Ever existed.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. It covered all of Russia, part of Europe and China, India, Great Mongol Empire and also Persian Empire.
CHARLIE ROSE: And who were the most famous leaders of that empire?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Of course Genghis Khan and Kublai Khan and you know, in Persia they were the Ilkhan and Sultani Muhammad and Mongolia built first observatory there. They built first hospitals, first universities. I was in Iran. I met Ayatollah Khamenei.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: And he said he’s really grateful for the Mongolia, for Mongolian Empire. During that (inaudible) our kings choose to make the Shia religion their main religion.
CHARLIE ROSE: So Shia became --
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: During Mongolian empire -- that became the main religion in Persia.
CHARLIE ROSE: And the main religion in Mongolia.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Our main religion in Mongolia was Buddhism and originally, of course, our religion is related with which is called shamanism.
CHARLIE ROSE: And how about you?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I’m Buddhist.
CHARLIE ROSE: You’re a Buddhist. Yes. And what does that mean in terms of how you see life?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: You know, it's very peaceful, and you are the owner of your destiny. That's how I see.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes. That's the central tenet of Buddhism, you are the owner of your destiny?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: How much conflict or accommodation is there with North Korea?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: You know, we have -- Mongolia have a unique position in our relation with North Korea. We have our embassy there and also we have our diplomatic relations with South Korea. I was in North Korea actually after my second term. My first country to visit, it was North Korea. And I asked, you know, to go to the detention centers or to go to the Kim Jong-Il University to give lecture. And they say no detention center, you can go to the Kim Jong-Il University, you can give a lecture. And I gave lecture titled "No dictatorship lasts forever".
CHARLIE ROSE: No dictatorship lasts forever. And how did they like that?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: They received it well.
CHARLIE ROSE: You got applause from the students?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, from the students.
CHARLIE ROSE: But you're saying to them because it's a dictatorship, you cannot live forever.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. I said, you know, countries better off. When countries make colonization, when countries give more power, more rights to your people, it's better.
And you know Mongolia was one of the most isolated communist regimes in the world, and now one of the most open, vibrant, democratic regime in the world.
CHARLIE ROSE: Now South Korea has a huge technology base now. Have you been able to achieve a technology base in Mongolia?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. One thing that makes our countries -- one thing makes us more equal is technology.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, it is a great equalizer.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: It's a great equalizer. You know, roughly in Mongolia we have three million people, but five million mobile phone users.
CHARLIE ROSE: Three million people and five million mobile phone users?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, five million mobile phone and we have a most --
CHARLIE ROSE: It’s almost two for every person.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. We have a non-censorship media and we have non- censorship on Facebook, not on Twitter.
CHARLIE ROSE: On Twitter and Facebook.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, everything is free. We have a public media, we have a private media in Mongolia.
CHARLIE ROSE: What is the biggest revenue source?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Biggest revenue source is mining.
CHARLIE ROSE: Mining.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Plus agriculture.
CHARLIE ROSE: What mining? What do you mine?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: We usually mine copper --
CHARLIE ROSE: Copper.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: -- and gold and also plus coal --
CHARLIE ROSE: I bet you China buys a lot of that, doesn’t it.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. We have a border with China 4,700 kilometers-long land border with China.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes. And has the decline in growth of their economy affected your economy?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, that's right.
CHARLIE ROSE: It has?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, it has. Because of that, we have to produce more in Mongolia. We have to make more processing, more factories in Mongolia. You know, we have 1.5 million square kilometers of land, three million people, 60 million cattle -- that's the numbers.
CHARLIE ROSE: How many cattle?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: 60 million.
CHARLIE ROSE: Three million people have 60 million cattle?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: That's right.
CHARLIE ROSE: Wow -- 60 million cattle for three million people.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: 20 heads, yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: All to what purpose? Because it produces beef?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: It produces beef, and 40 percent of our people still pursuing a nomadic way of life.
CHARLIE ROSE: I know some Wall Street types who have invested in Mongolia, whether it's in copper or mining or other areas of your economy. Are they nervous now, investors in Mongolia, because of the decline in the growth of China which has the impact on you?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I think they are somehow nervous, but one thing is in Mongolia's good because we have an open society.
CHARLIE ROSE: An open society.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Open society.
CHARLIE ROSE: Transparent society.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Transparent society. We learn from our mistakes. You know one thing is great, because the freedom is great, I think you can learn it. If in communist style, if you make a mistake it might be your last mistake. But in a democracy, the open society you can learn, you can address, you can fix it, and that's good. And we are cooperating with our investors, with our people.
CHARLIE ROSE: How about --
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: It is good. Now, it’s taken -- the contract is already signed means the underground mining is going to do well.
CHARLIE ROSE: Are there other -- when you look forward you've got technology, you have a strategic location because of the border you said you share with China and Russia. You've got democracy.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: You have trade.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: One thing why I am hopeful for Mongolia's progress because of our openness. When you have a lot of (inaudible) if you have a bad (inaudible) sometimes country in trouble.
But open countries usually do better. You see Australia, you see Canada, you see other countries -- those are the open countries. Mongolia is an open country. Because of that, we learn. If you make mistakes, we can fix that and we can improve it with our partners. That's our hope. Mongolia is not ruled by one man or one family. Ruled by the people.
CHARLIE ROSE: It's ruled by the people.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: You seem to have a very strong antipathy to totalitarianism.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: And dictatorships and anything that impedes freedom.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I like freedom. I love freedom. You know, freedom is courage. I think fighting for freedom is courage.
CHARLIE ROSE: Courage.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, courage. It's spirit. It's not promise, it's not law. It's courage.
CHARLIE ROSE: Do you travel a lot? You said you've come to the United Nations. You’ve been to Pyongyang.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, Pyongyang. I was in European Union, delivered my speech in the European Parliament.
CHARLIE ROSE: What did you tell them?
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: I told them how we transformed our country within one generation, within single generation from a communist regime to most open country. I just told them our story, that's it.
CHARLIE ROSE: I mean that really is what you do. You tell the Mongolian story.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes, we tell the Mongolian story. We are trying to advance that.
CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you for coming to this table.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Thank you very much.
CHARLIE ROSE: It’s a pleasure to have you here.
TSAKHIAGIIN ELBEGDORJ: Yes. Thank you for having me here.
CHARLIE ROSE: We'll be right back. Stay with us.
END
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